"Do you need a healing?" is what the highway sign I passed asked me. Below that was the name Thurman Scrivner and the dates that he would be in town. When I got home I looked up Mr. Scrivner and discovered that he was your run of the mill faith healer. His The Living Savior Ministries website is full of testimonials from those he has "healed". There is a man who had both his legs crushed and a young girl with a severe peanut allergy. But the big one is his granddaughter Katlynn whom I will tell you about later. If you have a lifetime of free time to waste, you could also listen to his over 400 sermons either through the website or by having free DVDs mailed to you. Now I've never been to a healing and so even though I wasn't really in need of one, I thought I would go check it out and see what actually happens at these things. Naturally, I pictured the afflicted people on the stage in a state of rapture having their demons cast out and throwing away their crutches while they writhe in some sort of self induced ecstasy. This turned out to be much different from that, not too mention hugely disappointing.
Bart and I walked into the conference room at a hotel in Leduc, Alberta about half an hour before the show was to start. It wasn't a very large room with about 120 seats. Only a handful of guests had arrived and they were being directed by ushers to their seats. I noticed that they didn't really talk to people or question them. We were asked where we were from and that was all. We took some second row seats and grabbed a handful of DVDs from a back table. I found out later that 10,000 of these DVDs are given away every week! At first we were heartened by what seemed to be a paltry turnout but nearly all the seats were eventually filled. A few of the folks were there the night before and would perhaps be there for the entire five day affair. Then there was the music. A trio of musicians regaled us with song after song about how fantastic God is. This was tolerable for about three songs and I even enjoyed singing along and pretending to blend in. Several people around us had their hands in the air or their eyes closed, singing the words by heart. I soon began praying (pun intended) for the music to stop.
Just as I was about to yell "for the love of God, make it stop!" a local Pastor got a hold of the microphone and asked us to place our donations in the "seedvelopes" provided. With sentences liberally peppered with "praise the Lord", "hallelujah", and "amen" he explained that even though the message is free, getting it to the people costs money and that we need to reap what we sow. Hence, the "seedvelopes". Clever, no? The donation begging went on for about twenty minutes and then he finally introduced Thurman Scrivner. The 71 year old self professed man of God took centre stage and began his endless preaching. Three things became evident. 1. Our diseases and injuries are the direct result of our sins. 2. He believes that the Bible is 100% accurate and the absolute word of God that is not to be questioned in the slightest. 3. I was going to have a hard time not rolling my eyes, pulling my hair out or screaming in sheer agony. He told us about a trip to Norway where he preached for some TV show. He noticed that many of Norway's women were sick. Why were they sick? Because they were committing the sin of not loving themselves. He explained to the hapless Norwegians that sin is the cause of their woes and that they must repent. The Norwegians were not convinced at first but were soon swayed into repenting and the whole country apparently experienced a turnaround in the general healthiness of it's citizens. Cool. Funny that we didn't hear about that.
So really, the general gist is that if you or your child is sick, it's because you have sinned in some way. It's not hard to sin either. Such things as unforgiveness, not going to church, deception, having sex or children out of wedlock, having oral sex, cussing or not loving yourself can get you a one way ticket to hurtville. If you do these or anything else God strictly forbids you from doing, don't be surprised if you or your children suffer from disease or injury. It's your own damn fault, got it? Now it may take awhile. Since God loves you, he may let you get away with your sinning for many years before he strikes you down. He'll send messengers such as neighbours and friends who will gently remind you of your impending doom. You ignore these messengers at your peril. But it's okay, if you were a bad person and managed to sin and got yourself all sick, you have an out. In John 15:7 we are told: "If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you." So it clearly states that anything we want we can have. Awesome! Dear God, please bring me Nathan Fillion. Hello? Oh wait. There are caveats. First you must believe. I mean REALLY believe. Faith is the absolute cornerstone to all of this even having a chance of working. Then you must figure out how you have sinned and repent for said sin. If none of this works, the healers have an out as well. Only God knows what's really in your heart, so even though you may be going through the motions, you don't really mean it enough.
We listened as Thurman recounted some of the miraculous healings he has performed and then he told us a heart wrenching story. Nine years ago, his wife of forty one years, his twenty four year old daughter, his three year old granddaughter and another six year old girl were involved in a head on car collision that instantly killed his wife and daughter and left the little girls fighting for their lives. So naturally people asked him what the sin was that would make God cause this tragedy. He thought long and hard and came to the conclusion that it must have been the weight his wife was gaining over the years even though he had warned her to curb her gluttonous ways. So let that be a warning to you. If you gain weight, heart disease is the least of your worries. So Thurman's granddaughter Katlynn is lying broken and near death. He says that the doctors told him that her brain stem was disconnected as well has her eyes. Her skull is fractured in five places, her face is cut and bleeding, her left knee cap is crushed and her right leg is broken in two places. She is being kept alive via ventilator and the doctors say that there is no chance of survival. They tell him that the best thing to do is to remove her from the machines and let her die. Now, being a man of God with the strongest Faith ever, Mr. Scrivner is not accepting this. He tells the doctors that they are wrong and that his merciful God will fix both of the broken girls. He prays over them for hours and hours. Lo and behold, both girls make full recoveries to the awe and amazement of all the doctors who claimed it was impossible. You can watch Thurman recount his story on Sid Roth's "It's Supernatural" - Scroll down and click on Katlynn, The Miracle Child. Someone please tell me I'm not the only one who thinks Sid Roth is creepier than Freddie Krueger.
The entire time, the rapt audience in the room lapped up every word and yelled out the occasional "praise the Lord". I could tell they agreed with everything he said. It's in the Bible after all, so it must be true. At one point he asked the folks if they believed that God would punish them. Only a handful of people put up their hands. I mean God loves us right? But when he pulled up a Bible verse on the screen that clearly stated that God would discipline you for pissing him off, there was an uncomfortable shift of mindset in the room. When he asked one poor lady behind us if she believed it, she sadly mumbled "but I don't want him too." He asked "But do you believe it?" It broke my heart when she answered, "well, I have to now." I don't know what Bible these people are reading but have they checked out the Consequences of Disobedience in Deuteronomy 28:15-30? Yikes!
I got angry at one point when he told of a six year old boy who was brought into the hospital, he had been shot. The boy's mother asked Thurman to pray for her son's recovery. But it's not that easy. Thurman noticed that the woman was pregnant and asked her if the child was conceived out of wedlock. The woman conceded that it was. Well then, this is the reason that her son was dying from a gunshot wound. Truly reprehensible. There are dire consequences for having a mindset such as the deluded one that Thurman Scrivner and his ilk have. Look, here's some. Faith healing has been studied and people supposedly healed have been followed up on. There have been studies done on the efficacy of prayer. Guess what, none of it has any evidence to support the claims. It doesn't work. It's a fairy tale.
Bart and I walked into the conference room at a hotel in Leduc, Alberta about half an hour before the show was to start. It wasn't a very large room with about 120 seats. Only a handful of guests had arrived and they were being directed by ushers to their seats. I noticed that they didn't really talk to people or question them. We were asked where we were from and that was all. We took some second row seats and grabbed a handful of DVDs from a back table. I found out later that 10,000 of these DVDs are given away every week! At first we were heartened by what seemed to be a paltry turnout but nearly all the seats were eventually filled. A few of the folks were there the night before and would perhaps be there for the entire five day affair. Then there was the music. A trio of musicians regaled us with song after song about how fantastic God is. This was tolerable for about three songs and I even enjoyed singing along and pretending to blend in. Several people around us had their hands in the air or their eyes closed, singing the words by heart. I soon began praying (pun intended) for the music to stop.
Just as I was about to yell "for the love of God, make it stop!" a local Pastor got a hold of the microphone and asked us to place our donations in the "seedvelopes" provided. With sentences liberally peppered with "praise the Lord", "hallelujah", and "amen" he explained that even though the message is free, getting it to the people costs money and that we need to reap what we sow. Hence, the "seedvelopes". Clever, no? The donation begging went on for about twenty minutes and then he finally introduced Thurman Scrivner. The 71 year old self professed man of God took centre stage and began his endless preaching. Three things became evident. 1. Our diseases and injuries are the direct result of our sins. 2. He believes that the Bible is 100% accurate and the absolute word of God that is not to be questioned in the slightest. 3. I was going to have a hard time not rolling my eyes, pulling my hair out or screaming in sheer agony. He told us about a trip to Norway where he preached for some TV show. He noticed that many of Norway's women were sick. Why were they sick? Because they were committing the sin of not loving themselves. He explained to the hapless Norwegians that sin is the cause of their woes and that they must repent. The Norwegians were not convinced at first but were soon swayed into repenting and the whole country apparently experienced a turnaround in the general healthiness of it's citizens. Cool. Funny that we didn't hear about that.
So really, the general gist is that if you or your child is sick, it's because you have sinned in some way. It's not hard to sin either. Such things as unforgiveness, not going to church, deception, having sex or children out of wedlock, having oral sex, cussing or not loving yourself can get you a one way ticket to hurtville. If you do these or anything else God strictly forbids you from doing, don't be surprised if you or your children suffer from disease or injury. It's your own damn fault, got it? Now it may take awhile. Since God loves you, he may let you get away with your sinning for many years before he strikes you down. He'll send messengers such as neighbours and friends who will gently remind you of your impending doom. You ignore these messengers at your peril. But it's okay, if you were a bad person and managed to sin and got yourself all sick, you have an out. In John 15:7 we are told: "If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you." So it clearly states that anything we want we can have. Awesome! Dear God, please bring me Nathan Fillion. Hello? Oh wait. There are caveats. First you must believe. I mean REALLY believe. Faith is the absolute cornerstone to all of this even having a chance of working. Then you must figure out how you have sinned and repent for said sin. If none of this works, the healers have an out as well. Only God knows what's really in your heart, so even though you may be going through the motions, you don't really mean it enough.
We listened as Thurman recounted some of the miraculous healings he has performed and then he told us a heart wrenching story. Nine years ago, his wife of forty one years, his twenty four year old daughter, his three year old granddaughter and another six year old girl were involved in a head on car collision that instantly killed his wife and daughter and left the little girls fighting for their lives. So naturally people asked him what the sin was that would make God cause this tragedy. He thought long and hard and came to the conclusion that it must have been the weight his wife was gaining over the years even though he had warned her to curb her gluttonous ways. So let that be a warning to you. If you gain weight, heart disease is the least of your worries. So Thurman's granddaughter Katlynn is lying broken and near death. He says that the doctors told him that her brain stem was disconnected as well has her eyes. Her skull is fractured in five places, her face is cut and bleeding, her left knee cap is crushed and her right leg is broken in two places. She is being kept alive via ventilator and the doctors say that there is no chance of survival. They tell him that the best thing to do is to remove her from the machines and let her die. Now, being a man of God with the strongest Faith ever, Mr. Scrivner is not accepting this. He tells the doctors that they are wrong and that his merciful God will fix both of the broken girls. He prays over them for hours and hours. Lo and behold, both girls make full recoveries to the awe and amazement of all the doctors who claimed it was impossible. You can watch Thurman recount his story on Sid Roth's "It's Supernatural" - Scroll down and click on Katlynn, The Miracle Child. Someone please tell me I'm not the only one who thinks Sid Roth is creepier than Freddie Krueger.
The entire time, the rapt audience in the room lapped up every word and yelled out the occasional "praise the Lord". I could tell they agreed with everything he said. It's in the Bible after all, so it must be true. At one point he asked the folks if they believed that God would punish them. Only a handful of people put up their hands. I mean God loves us right? But when he pulled up a Bible verse on the screen that clearly stated that God would discipline you for pissing him off, there was an uncomfortable shift of mindset in the room. When he asked one poor lady behind us if she believed it, she sadly mumbled "but I don't want him too." He asked "But do you believe it?" It broke my heart when she answered, "well, I have to now." I don't know what Bible these people are reading but have they checked out the Consequences of Disobedience in Deuteronomy 28:15-30? Yikes!
I got angry at one point when he told of a six year old boy who was brought into the hospital, he had been shot. The boy's mother asked Thurman to pray for her son's recovery. But it's not that easy. Thurman noticed that the woman was pregnant and asked her if the child was conceived out of wedlock. The woman conceded that it was. Well then, this is the reason that her son was dying from a gunshot wound. Truly reprehensible. There are dire consequences for having a mindset such as the deluded one that Thurman Scrivner and his ilk have. Look, here's some. Faith healing has been studied and people supposedly healed have been followed up on. There have been studies done on the efficacy of prayer. Guess what, none of it has any evidence to support the claims. It doesn't work. It's a fairy tale.
Comments
Kim B
I have seen his little grandchild on a TV program called It's Supernatural. The testimony is true.
All healing reports have been medically documented. Do you know what that means?
The church who invited him took up the offering. I have attended Thurman's meetings elsewhere and he generally requests that an offering not be taken. His CD's and DVD's are given away. No one's arms were twisted off to contribute anything. I only gave once and attended every night. Some people want to give. It is a part of worship.
Thurman is a very sincere and earnest Bible student. He did not provide the music. It was a group who used to (as I understand) play country and western. You are probably accustomed to traditional music (as I am), but I found their style a refreshing change from beautiful old hymns and the slower paced songs.
You are entitled to ramble on as an armchair skeptic, but as I see it, you misunderstood his entire teaching and a lot about what happened that night.
In any place of worship, the doors are always open to enter in and visit, or to walk out when it doesn't meet with our approval.
it's an odd thing to say. A boy is shot and lies in a hospital near death and it's because his mother got pregnant out of wedlock?
Have you even READ the bible? God does so many things that are so much worse than getting pregnant out of wedlock. Wow.
Anyhow, it's dangerous thinking.
That said, if Mr. Scrivner's miracles are medically proven, the JREF Million dollar prize awaits, and it would not take much to get. Simply showing the medical records might be enough. A million bucks. that could go a long way to helping humanity, why doesn't Mr. Scrivner use his talents to heal someone and get the prize?
Please explain to me exactly how I misunderstood. Mr. Scriver's point was very clear. You sin, you or your loved ones suffer. Simple.
Yes, I do know what it means if Katlynn's recovery is medically documented. If it is and it can be proven that her recovery is a direct result of prayer, then it means that Thurman Scrivner can have a million dollars to help many people with.
http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge/challenge-application.html
I agree with you that Mr. Scrivner is sincere. Him and everyone in the room seemed very sincere. Unfortunately they are sincerely deluded. And I still stand by my statement that telling a mother that her child was shot because she conceived out of wedlock is reprehensible.
Again, please explain my misunderstanding and I shall attempt to see things the way you do.
Well...I have an interesting, I think, perspective on this.
I became aware of Scrivner googling re: Lyme Disease healings. I have Lyme and would far prefer getting free of it more on the instantaneous side of things than continuing down the $1,000-$2,000/month out of pocket treatment scenario I've been in for the last 5 years (my parents money. i had already gone medically bankrupt chasing treatments for misdiagnoses). My father has Parkinsons, and I finaly got him diagnosed with Lyme. BTW, with antibiotic IV treatment, his Parkinsons symptoms diminished by 25%. IF you are care to inform yourself about the Lyme "conspiracy" (which, sadly, it is quite close to being), see "Under Our Skin" via Netflix, instant download. It's an Academy-Award nominated documentary on this tragic situation. I digress, but bear with me: you might save a life (if prayer doesn't end up working ;) ANYONE diagnosed with ALS, MS, Parkinsons, Alzheimers, Chronic Fatigue, Fibromyalgia, Lupus is pretty much screaming for an evaluation by a top Lyme Literate Medical Doctor (LLMD). And yet...I had NONE of those misdiagnoses, as, in very sad fact, Lyme has over 350 potential misdiagnoses. It's a raging epidemic very few people are aware of. This is a huge topic. If you care to be given more info, email me at mahasudarshan108@gmail.com.
BAck to the topic--thank you for humoring my impassioned digression.
So....as a non-Christian who has wrestled with what I believe to be the horrors of the history of Christianity, the hatefulness and barbarism of the Bible (hmm...how much of tha book is really about love and peace and forgiveness? not much), etc. etc. etc., I decided to suspend all of my history, knowledge, and opinion about Christianity, and just.....listen to testimonials online.
I purposefully listened only to those interviewed who had recovered from something major illness or injury some time ago. No on-stage YOU ARE HEALED-ings were to be considered.
And....frankly....I am impressed. And I really don't want to feel like this. It pisses me off on a number of levels. However, some "light" for me around these miracles has dawned since I began the study of medical qi gong--the cultivation of internal energy for healing purposes.
(con't)
The man I study with is emphatic about this: illness is ALWAYS attached to emotional imbalance of some sort (in other words, "sin", for as Thurman is defining it, it is essentially emotional and energetic lack of alignment (how many mother's out of wedlock feel 100% grand about the situation? get my point?) Now.....is the Universe senstiive and demanding enough to render your child shot in the head because of your unresolved emotions? I sincerely hope not, but the further I go with my studies, the more I get the feeling that it is posssible, although, energetic and universal cause and effect are usually far more complex than what I just described.
What I can tell you is I have friend/students of his who have healed myriad conditions through his qi gong work, and a big componenet is always them tending to emotions. However, Dr. Sun's (the teacher's) focus is often not on the patient's "sin" but on what they are taking on from other people--as in guilt over your father's alcoholism, or your parent's guilt tripping you for not being a lawyer, etc. Ther eare as many causes of emotional distrubance as there are stars in the sky, including of course one's own sense of some kind of energetic or spiritual "trespass" for which our soul would delight in amends being made.
So, the self-healings Dr. Sun's work generates contradicts Thurmans'teaching in that he has people who have healed their conditions, by getting free of their family's "crap" while not ever even having to contemplate their wild behaviors from the 60's. For some, perhaps crazy drugged out nights are a poison to the psyches, and to some others, no big deal. So clearly, "reality' disproves this part of his "theory". Although I know enough of Christianity to know a staunch Christian will assign to any healing from something as pagan as qi gong to be demonically-manifested. But...I just can't go there, so I won't in this discussion. Feel free to, though if it suits your beliefs.
So, I can say, yes, I have seen massive healings when people deal with energetic and emotional disalignement or "sin".
And..interestingly....some of the "instantaneous" qi gong healings have the occurance of feelings of fire and huge energies coursing through the body suddenly--just as Christian healings often have reported around them.
What I am sad to observe, however, is that I know of nowhere near the frequency and degree of instantaneous qi gong or in fact any other modality or religions' prayer-inspired healings that can rival some of those reported by Scrivner's testimonials, or others I have found online.
(con't)
Perhaps you argue, people could say anything online, you can't tell what is true. And yes, I wish I had the time/money to hire private investigators, or PI myself into these stories and claims to affirm them. But I don't. So I just watch people's faces and listen and re-listen to the tales being told, as I have learned in my medical odyssey to value antecdotal evidence (for exmaple, magnets for pain. my bankruptcy happened from trying all manner of allopathic and alternative means for healing pain. and then i found nikken magnets and infrared fabrics, bought a few hundred dollars worth on ebay, and OMG (pun, yes), I am HEALED! I told my Seattle Magazine "Seattle's Best Doctors" "top orthopedic surgeon" this, and he dismissed it as placebo. Ummm....hmmm....if placebo would work for me, perhaps the drug store lame magnets I had tried years earlier in high hopes should have done it, or some other amongst the $60,000 worth of things I tried would. again, I digress).
So, for me, listening to all of these testimonies has caused a real pause and unrest in my mind. Because I damned sure (pun ;) do not want literalist Christinaity to be "right", and if it is, well, wow, hmmm...hard choice--have to spend eternity with Hitler, Kurt Cobain, and the Dalai Lama, or with Christinas EWWW (apologies to Christian readers, I am being a bit cheeky, but take a look at Sid Roth, the current Pope, Tammy Faye Baker, and many less nauseating personalities, and perhaps you will understand my perspective).
As a mere mortal, I cannot confirm or deny any diety speculations. But...in the hope of my heart that Christianity is pretty way off base as described in the bible, all I can offer is this: those who believe strongly in right and worng, and heaven, hell, afterlife, etc., have huge motivation to be strongly faithful. And some of the most gifted, and often simple (as in not overly intellectual) are advantaged to be created in such a way that they can manifest perfect conviction and devotion to that conviction, and so feuled by strong dogma and a book from God, their mind is therefore self-empowered to through belief alone, create miracles and instant changes of matter states, in the way a qi gong master can, but with way way way fewer years of training ;). That's my theory anyway. And still....I am haunted by the stories I have heard and I am having a difficult time sewing all of my conflicting observations, experiences, beliefs and ideals together....
Thanks so much to this blogger for posting. I wish you'd had the time to really sniff around and research this guy and the faithful who were there when you saw him!
Best wishes for all healings needed for all,
e
September my oldest daughter conceived and had a son (my grandson) out of wed lock. It's been a living hell for them both and even for the children she had after her marriage to another man. Any time one goes against God's plan for family which means any and All SEXUAL SINS before OR after marriage is (according to His Word) a sin. God forgives our sins (1st. John 1:9.) But,there are consequences that will bite you in the butt later on. Trust it; God says what He means and means what He said.
God Bless you all........
Can't be angry at something you don't believe in so I'm not angry at God. But yes, I am angry at Thurman when he says reprehensible things because he believes in a non-existent deity.
"You can't pick the Bible apart and like only some of it and if you don't believe it b/c something did not go your way in your healing, it's not Thurman you are calling a liar, it's God"
The bible is a useless book written by goat herders who didn't know why the sun came up. But many people who believe in it do pick and choose the things they like. Maybe you should preach to them. Again, not calling God a liar. He doesn't exist. Not sure what this healing is you are talking about.
"The very God you go to church and worship but only believe parts of his word...the parts that fit your life style."
Nope. Don't worship any gods or go to to any church.
"I want you to ponder on these things by yourself and maybe it will stop you from making judgement on something that you simply cannot believe."
I have pondered and yup, I still think Thurman as well as anyone else who still believes in a magical sky daddy is delusional.
It was interesting reading your article and seeing things from your perspective. I like honest writing, and you said things that some people may think but are afraid to say. For example, pointing out the hypocrisy in the seedvelopes, and how the program is free but you're supposed to sow so you can reap. This is a HUGE problem in so-called Christianity, and I actually think that many of those people that are asking for your money so God will bless you won't be in Heaven.
I was glad to read one of the first comments on your article from someone that has attended other Thurman meetings and to hear that he prefers not to take an offering. That's good, and I think he is making a mistake by allowing himself to be identified with people that make such pleas for money.
However badly this presentation went, I would like to assure you that divine healing is real and it has happened many, many, many times and will continue to happen. But you have to remember that our media is very liberal, and they usually don't like to help promote the true gospel message, and so they are not likely to report on the divine healings that take place. It would probably offend their advertisers and many other people.
But the great thing now is that we have YouTube, so even though you may not be present when a healing takes place, you might be able to see a video of one. In fact, I would like to present to you one that I was involved in.
I was in Europe for about a month, and while there I met a guy named Robbert Dam. We met at an event put on by Torben Sondergaard, who teaches on healing and many other topics. I had already learned from Torben before and had already begun to practice healing. I spent a weekend with Robbert & family, and on that Saturday they had already planned an outreach session, so we went out on the street, trying to find people to pray for.
At first I was using my camera to try and capture other people doing healing, but nothing much was happening. I suggested to Robbert that the two of us walk around and look for people to pray for. He had the bright idea of putting the wireless microphone on me. I wasn’t sure I was ready for that—I had never done that before, and as we started I found it was a little difficult talking with people knowing that I was being filmed. But it's good to learn to do this, and the wonderful thing is that we were able to get a healing on camera. It's about a 4 minute video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEzkRRdCxTs
In case the link doesn't work, you can search for the video with "Robbert Dam pain disappears". Anticipating questions you might have, I never met the girl before and I have not seen her since (I live in the U.S.), so I don't know what the long term result was, but it's obvious from the video that something happened in that moment. I have been in other situations and I have been able to verify that healings that happened were still holding after a period of time.
Just so you know, the Last Reformation website has a place where you can donate but it's not required, and to this date I have not donated anything on their website. The website has many, many videos of healings and I know they are real because I know the people and principles involved. I was actually able to go out with Torben as a second camera man for one afternoon during that visit to Holland. (He is from Denmark.)
Although you may not believe it, the Bible contains an accurate description of the history of the world from the time of creation until the time of Jesus and there is no other book like it in the world. It explains how life is supposed to be lived and why we are here.
Thurman is correct that there is a connection between sickness and sin--before sin was in the world there was no sickness--but I think he is completely wrong to go so far. Searching for a reason that his wife was killed and coming up with the fact that she was overweight is wrong. That whole subject is a complex one, and I'm not sure that I would get it right, and this probably isn't the place for that debate anyway. There are consequences to sin, and the biggest one is that no sinner gets into Heaven. Can you imagine if a thief got into Heaven? Would it be Heaven anymore, if you had to watch your stuff so it wouldn't be stolen?
But there is a solution. If you REALLY turn away from your sin and accept what Jesus has done, you can be forgiven and cleansed and healed. With His own blood Jesus paid for our forgiveness and for our healing.
Having said that, your random quote sounds as pointless to me as does the following to you:
The person without the Gris-Gris does not accept the things that come from Cthulhu but considers them foolishness and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Gris-Gris.
I feel that Thurman Scrivner is a false prophet with his talk of cursing and his changing up the scriptures. He speaks of precious little children with down syndrome or birth defects or birth injuries as "cursed" or "demons." He causes prejudice and hate. These little children (and the adults they become) are like angels on earth--that have come to test our love and acceptance. Any one of them could be Christ in disguise. (And they demonstrate such innocence and unconditional love of others). His focus on curses and misinterpretation of scriptures smells of demonology or some other such evil. Many of his "miraculous" claims cannot be proven-as he misleads people into doubting their self worth and inner peace. That is the "lie" and indication of a demon or false prophet.
If you live THE LAW, you die by THE LAW. Scrivner's teachings immediately subjects your life to curses.
B...E...W...A...R..E
Christ became "a curse" for us, so that we may live freely. When transformed by the Spirit, you have a willingness to desire to please God and should you fall, His grace sustains you.
Had I continued following this false teaching, I may have been in the grave sooner than anticipated... oh, but grace.
All you need to know is that you were "Slime" in a pond.
Evolution then really starts moving to where you are now. Who needs God now anyway.
Mankind is doing fine without God. Through education, especially Common Core, we should all be fine. We should be able to evolve our way out of any problem. If the evolution needed is too fast.........say for Global Warming... the chosen one (Barak) will get us there, if we give him our coal and taxes.
I too have been oraying at the street, and seen healings.
But dont follow falce teaching.
Putting a microphone and taping it? Putting films on youtube, you should Be ashamed, it is so bad doing such a thing.
Do you consider asking People ?
And healing, really !
Believing God is about The Cross. Its about maling a choise to follow Jesus, accepting Him as Lord and Savior.
Do not believe every romuor you hear. Do not out tour Faith in sign and wonders, but only in God.
I pray in Jesus Name tour eyes nat Be opened.
Why don't you jokers get your act together and your story straight and consistent, then when you have all collectively decided on whether or not you, as Christians, support Scrivener and his work, come back here and let us know. Only then, when you have stopped moving the goalposts, can we nonbeleivers address your statements.
Until then I (random commenter, not the blogger here) will continue to assume that Scrivener is just a penny-ante pretend faith healer, or as I call them all, "FAKE HEALER".
~PeMo
What I don't understand is why do unbelievers fight so hard to convenience Christians that there is no God. The word does tell us that the god of this world blinds people to the truth because he does not want them to believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God. I'm a Vietnam Veteran. I served 10 months 21 days 10 hours is 45 minutes in Vietnam. On February 16,1967 I was blown up by a hand grenade. I was crossing a narrow river in a 3 man canoe we got into a firefight and the enemy threw a hand grenade and blew the three of us out of the canoe. The guy in front of me was hit from head to toe. The guy behind me was struck in the forehead. I felt the violent explosion and fell into the water but I did not have a scratch on my body. As we were crossing the river I was praying the Hail Mary and the Lord's Prayer. About two hours later our 26 man platoon was surrounded by an estimated 200 North Vietnamese. In a matter of seconds after the initial attack we were down to 11 men. Now, just before the attack occurred I heard an inner voice tell me to get into the fox hole. Five minutes later all hell broke loose and we were on our on with no reinforcements coming in the dark of night. This night was a vicious night of survival. I will not bore you with my whole war story but I tell you this one thing I know and that is God is real and Jesus Christ is his son. Unbelievers you have the freedom to not believe but Satan is very happy with how you represent his interest. I know from experience that Pastor Thurman is a sincere man of God. He teaches directly from the bible and many bible scholars don't fully embrace all the truths of the bible. The bible tells us that there are some who have a form of Godliness but denying the power thereof. From such stay away. Why would anyone want to serve a God who has no power. I know I would not. The way God operates is a mystery but I have learned to trust him. I thank everyone for voicing their opinions. One things for sure
in a matter of time our lives on this earth will be no more and the truth will be known. One thing I would like to say to unbelievers. Ask Jesus if he does exist and he is the son of God to come into my life. If you do not exist then you can't hear me anyway. Nothing to lose but just perhaps something to gain. Good night to all and God Bless you and keep you and your family safe and in good health. Also please excuse any misspelled words or phrases.
The Glory of the Heavens says there is a God.
Look up, any time...Day or Night! And, you will see the Works of His Hands.
Look at your husband or wife; your children; mother; father; sister; brother; neighbor or anyone you care about.
Where does that expression or feeling of Love comes from when you look at them. Or maybe you feel hatred or sadness.
Why do we possess these qualities of emotions.
Compare Mankind to all the other kingdoms on Earth: Fouls of the air, Fish of the Sea, Beast of the Field and Creepy Crawling things. Even the Plant Kingdom.
Why do you think you have the capacity to choose to DISBELIEVE in a Sovereign, Divine, Supernatural Being whose responsible for creating and giving life and purpose to all life forms that you see. And who has given us, if you will, a Bill of Rights, Constitution and Law of Consequences since He is Holy and Righteous and is Judge of the Highest Court.
To say that there is NO God, clearly means that you can't begin to answer the above questions. So don't try!!!